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CO Tiers discussion

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Postby benbever » Fri Nov 21, 2008 2:50 am

The broken five are broken on almost all maps, Sturm is only broken on some maps. Since Sturm is in the leagues, the league maps are mostly Sturm proof. Sturm doesn't have much of a chance against one of the broken five co's, so he isn't in the same league as them.

Sorry, your list doesn't make much sense. Eagle isn't considered first tier because of his weak early game, he loses games before he gets scop. You place Nell second tier when you don't even know how to play Nell. Jess sure is great because of her land units, but her footsoldiers sure are bad, making her lose a lot of games. Rachel and Grimm are both definately not 4th tier, because of their respective scop and d2d. They are however a bit more difficult to use.

When I was new on AWBW, I used to think that Adder sucked too. In fact all of AWBW did. He was considered the worst co back then (Flak wasn't implemented yet.) Today we know better. Adder has a very cheap cop, meaning quick and often 110/110 and he gets extra movement for all units, meaning infantry and mechs. With this he gets first strike a lot, and can counter high tier co's like Grimm. He even has a much better chance against Grit than most co's. Koal and Adder are definately not co's you should never use.
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Postby EchelonThree » Fri Nov 21, 2008 8:09 am

benbever wrote:The broken five are broken on almost all maps, Sturm is only broken on some maps. Since Sturm is in the leagues, the league maps are mostly Sturm proof. Sturm doesn't have much of a chance against one of the broken five co's, so he isn't in the same league as them.

Sorry, your list doesn't make much sense. Eagle isn't considered first tier because of his weak early game, he loses games before he gets scop. You place Nell second tier when you don't even know how to play Nell. Jess sure is great because of her land units, but her footsoldiers sure are bad, making her lose a lot of games. Rachel and Grimm are both definately not 4th tier, because of their respective scop and d2d. They are however a bit more difficult to use.

When I was new on AWBW, I used to think that Adder sucked too. In fact all of AWBW did. He was considered the worst co back then (Flak wasn't implemented yet.) Today we know better. Adder has a very cheap cop, meaning quick and often 110/110 and he gets extra movement for all units, meaning infantry and mechs. With this he gets first strike a lot, and can counter high tier co's like Grimm. He even has a much better chance against Grit than most co's. Koal and Adder are definately not co's you should never use.


I think he plays too much AWDS cart, because if you compared his list to the cart it seems to make sense
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Postby Ian_the_pro » Fri Nov 21, 2008 8:24 am

*cough*

and flak and jugger are much worse than adder, unless u believe having -75 attack is good
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Postby benbever » Fri Nov 21, 2008 11:51 am

Flak smash stuff

I think he plays too much AWDS cart, because if you compared his list to the cart it seems to make sense

Why does he mention Eagles scop then, on AWDS Eagle is top tier or broken because of his cop.
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Postby EchelonThree » Fri Nov 21, 2008 10:24 pm

benbever wrote:Flak smash stuff

I think he plays too much AWDS cart, because if you compared his list to the cart it seems to make sense

Why does he mention Eagles scop then, on AWDS Eagle is top tier or broken because of his cop.


I took a general look and got a feel, low tier grimm, high tier jess, low tier olaf...
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Postby Cereal Killer » Sat Nov 22, 2008 5:04 pm

benbever wrote:The broken five are broken on almost all maps, Sturm is only broken on some maps. Since Sturm is in the leagues, the league maps are mostly Sturm proof. Sturm doesn't have much of a chance against one of the broken five co's, so he isn't in the same league as them.

Eagle isn't considered first tier because of his weak early game, he loses games before he gets scop. You place Nell second tier when you don't even know how to play Nell. Jess sure is great because of her land units, but her footsoldiers sure are bad, making her lose a lot of games. Rachel and Grimm are both definately not 4th tier, because of their respective scop and d2d. They are however a bit more difficult to use.

When I was new on AWBW, I used to think that Adder sucked too. In fact all of AWBW did. He was considered the worst co back then (Flak wasn't implemented yet.) With this he gets first strike a lot, and can counter high tier co's like Grimm. He even has a much better chance against Grit than most co's. Koal and Adder are definately not co's you should never use.


The three things I've always failed to realize about the people who play AWBW on this site are two CO choices. Why you would ever pick Grimm in 90% of the maps on this site is a mystery to me, and why he's considered top tier is another mystery. In fact i was about to put Grimm in bottom tier till i remembered he's useful on a few maps. Eagle is banned with an airport or 1st tier without, and anyone who says otherwise can't play Eagle right. Also Adder is terrible, maybe I should run a test game against someone my playing level, cuz every game I've ever played against Adder i've won and every game I've ever used Adder I lost. I think I'll change Rachel to third tier, that does make more sense, I didn't really think about it that much when i threw her in their. also just because I don't know how to play Nell doesn't mean she's not second tier.


P.S. Koal sucks. :wink:
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Postby Ploumeur » Sat Nov 22, 2008 5:58 pm

Picking Grimm is like getting 3 com towers, but you give 2,5 to 4 com towers to your opponent. So his D2D is an advantage only against meatshield CO's (Javier, Jake).

His COP and SCOP give him 6/9 towers on every terrain, that's the best attack a CO can do (except Nell).
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Postby Felix45 » Sat Nov 22, 2008 5:59 pm

grimm makes artillery/rockets almost useless on most maps. that is why he is good.
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Postby Tyrael » Sat Nov 22, 2008 6:17 pm

Evil_Cereal_Killer wrote:Eagle is banned with an airport or 1st tier without, and anyone who says otherwise can't play Eagle right.


Or maybe those people can play AW right and realize 98% of games are decided by the time of his SCOP?
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Postby Zovea » Sat Nov 22, 2008 6:23 pm

Why don't we include brokens in the tier or give them there own tier?
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Postby benbever » Sat Nov 22, 2008 6:36 pm

Evil_Cereal_Killer wrote:The three things I've always failed to realize about the people who play AWBW on this site are two CO choices. Why you would ever pick Grimm in 90% of the maps on this site is a mystery to me, and why he's considered top tier is another mystery. In fact i was about to put Grimm in bottom tier till i remembered he's useful on a few maps.

You can play AWBW on other sites? Anyway, Grimm has a net d2d, he does more damage to his opponents than they do to him. Unless it's very heavy terrain. And he has good and cheap co powers. His d2d attack bonus makes that he is pretty good against normal co's, and his high attack makes that he's good against co's who depend on meatshields and artillery, even Grit. In total he's pretty good or very good against most co's, that's why he's high tier. He has problems against co's with a better d2d, like Nell, or that get first strike often, like Adder. That's why he isn't top tier.

Evil_Cereal_Killer wrote:Eagle is banned with an airport or 1st tier without, and anyone who says otherwise can't play Eagle right.

Or, you are good with Eagle, but not equally good with other co's. Eagle is definately high tier, top tier even on some maps (big indirect warfare maps with no sea and with airports.) He can build more units with his scop, and can use indirects and air particulary well. But if the map is a quick map (small) with fewer bases, and perhaps no air, then he becomes high tier, middle tier or even low tier if it's a sea map. On a small map he gets beaten easily by Rachel, or by d2d co's. On a sea map, even with air, he gets beaten by Drake. On low deployment direct maps he gets beaten by direct expert co's. All co's get their scop sooner or have a great d2d, and if Eagle loses, it's because of that. It's because of his win/loss ratio with expert players that everyone agrees on Eagle being high tier, but usually not top tier.

Evil_Cereal_Killer wrote:Also Adder is terrible, maybe I should run a test game against someone my playing level, cuz every game I've ever played against Adder i've won and every game I've ever used Adder I lost. I think I'll change Rachel to third tier, that does make more sense, I didn't really think about it that much when i threw her in their. also just because I don't know how to play Nell doesn't mean she's not second tier.

Nell is not second tier, unless you count the brokens as first tier. It doesn't matter how well you play with Nell. I know your playing level from playing awbw with you, and it is possible that all your Adder playing opponents did not know how to use Adder well, thus getting easily beaten by you. Adder is also a bit map depandant and very co dependant. Make a game on "question marks" and ask me or another willing player who is good with Adder to join, to show you what Adder can do. Pick any low to high tier co, Eagle for instance.

Evil_Cereal_Killer wrote:P.S. Koal sucks.

Well as far as d2d and co power go, on AWBW, he's decent, but not as good as Adder. On AWDS he sucks. As a character he sucks, and as a clown he fails ;) Also his name is actually Zak, but both Zak and Koal suck as names.

Ploumeur wrote:His COP and SCOP give him 6/9 towers on every terrain, that's the best attack a CO can do (except Nell).

And except 9towerJavier, with scop :P and except Kindle with scop and a lot of cities, and except Colin, Colin can do 999% damage.
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Postby benbever » Sat Nov 22, 2008 6:39 pm

Zovea wrote:Why don't we include brokens in the tier or give them there own tier?

We do -_- it's called the broken co tier. It includes the broken five, and they are better than top tier or first tier. Nowadays everyone agrees on them.
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Postby Zovea » Sat Nov 22, 2008 9:00 pm

benbever wrote:
Zovea wrote:Why don't we include brokens in the tier or give them there own tier?

We do -_- it's called the broken co tier. It includes the broken five, and they are better than top tier or first tier. Nowadays everyone agrees on them.


I meant rank the Brokens
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Postby benbever » Sat Nov 22, 2008 9:21 pm

Yes, me too.
Did you mean the five brokens against each other? They all beat each other with ease depending on map.
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Postby Zovea » Sat Nov 22, 2008 9:24 pm

So your telling me that out of 28 CO's you cant rank 5 of them against each other?

I would say:
Grit
Collin
Kanbei
Hachi
Sensi
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